How I was murdered in my own home and lived to pay for it.

Yet Another Jesuit Fool

Ronald Holz -- "there is something called toxic faith that damages everyone touched by it whether the one practicing it or people around the one who practices it. So it is deeply regrettable Terry if you have suffered from encountering that in someone else. SK in working to remind those claiming to be the church about the real nature of genuine faith was also addressing those in his own time who practices toxic faith. The real challenge is in how to see beyond our own wounds in order to genuinely encounter Christ. May this year bring year bring the occasion to do so."


Toxic faith like all other manifestations of Jesuit faith, is an ethereal and SUBJECTIVE and intangible set of conditions a person can use to support others who do crimes or do felonies themselves.

Bad faith means many things and Jesuits are good at the notion of "Blame the victim" or "Blame Satan" for it all.

Problems again are the core of the Church and what I point out is the foundation of failure.

The fact this is a fraud overall.

And the notion Church actually SUED me in courts of law AFTER murdering me in a hate crime etc and overall never seems to divest them of wrongdoing.....

Church is dead.

Christ is a fraud in total and I'd not accept murder of an innocent to pay for me.

Or his suicide in doing so.

You'd need to understand that his death has no meaning to you or anyone else.

Since it was needless, and pays for nothing....

And what I believe matters not and what you believe matters not there are contracts, this is USA and rule of law prevails here and I have a right to see these people charged with crimes and my money and the rest returned to me.

That ends it.

Arrest them and the Church....

Christ is the problem here.

In other words.

And I said that already.

This is the next problem with Jesuits.

Inability to read or be wrong or apologize.

Or to see victims as victims.

Odd how not one of you can concede one crime was done to me personally or would ask to discuss them....


And you said "...The real challenge is in how to see beyond our own wounds in order to genuinely encounter Christ. ..."

Not really since some of these wounds are actual death events, I've had more than one medical intervention, been dead 4 times myself... literally.

Been denied medical care countless times.

You never asked what my injuries are.

I have lost decades of my life for no reason.

Can not work or own property.

Pedophiles and murderers and hate mongers still remain free and in care of children.

Have lost a career and a home and a spouse and family who I now learn took part in this of course.

Most of this has been unresolved as of even 13 years out and my making witness of it since I knew of it in 2003.

You have no practical common sense Ronald:

Interesting you are Baptist since as I was being sexually assaulted as a boy in our First Baptist Church the pastor actually quotes Leviticus 18:22 citing my age to support his pedophilia.

So for you the train wreck is allowed to fester and continue unabated that led to more crimes being done to me for 50+ years from that point.

I think you need a new system of belief personally.

Since you'd be a child raping felon to suggest what you just said to me.

Again you prove me right with the human rut that you offer to victims of your Church's crimes.

You really said nothing of substance other than suggesting to blame me for my lack of your faith and support of your lack of ethic and common sense and want to support rule of law.


Looks like you are wrong again since of course I did have some notion of "faith" since I was able to move forward despite the homicides and atrocity done to me just that none of you felt like making it better or make it stop.

Now you have some other sets of expectations upon me that would include what?

Having it both ways again for you being not say anything about it or to say something about it only to be told to be silent about it or asked why I waited to complain or not complain?

Sound right?

I think you expect me to be ok with what you did to me and that is not going to work either.

Hard to bargain with the dead is it not?

Or support having sex with and murdering kids in your parish....

You offer too much support for this wrongdoing and avoidance of the consequences including surrounding frauds and crimes made with Police, shills, State, etc in order to obscure the real problems and those doing the crimes.

YOU supported this and do so still.

AND hoped only to remove accountability for the Police who raped me as a child burned me with cigars and cigarettes in the face, attempted to murder me, my father who drowned me as a child in Lake Ontario and now involves a foreign nation in that mess.

You are lost Ronald my son.....

These atrocities are not defensible.

Again Ronald says this "...So it is deeply regrettable Terry if you have suffered from encountering that in someone else. ..."

So in your mind you'd say none of that would be obvious? The word IF would be left out of that statement of course. No point discussing that with me to make it clear eh Ronald? You just prefer to admit not bothering to read anything about the events....

Knife someone to the point they die, call it a car accident since they can't recall the event despite someone else making efforts to revive them?

Seems parsimonious and cowardly of you really.

Again the offer of proof would be lies in media, knife wounds made in car accidents that did not happen, homicides of children in another country, use of shills, death events, strangulation and other wounds made to me as a child, and then the want to offer that you have proof in the Church since you were asked to get involved beyond sodomizing me as a child and then mislead me and others about it later. Right Ronny?

Saying it is regrettable is dishonest also since you stood for doing it and did participate in doing it. Why do something then stand against it?

Who cares what your Church says now?

They are all liars and child raping felons.

And proved that to us as you reprove here and now.

Problem overall again is felonies done to me by Church and others.

It was brought to them, they filed specious law suits in courts of law, and the rest so that proves you stood for these crimes and did them.

And for the rest of you it won't work either for the reasons I've stated above and you prove that anew here.

You are accountable for you and NOBODY suffers for or pays for you ever.

You break the law you pay.

The Jesus Road Show To Nowhere:

It goes on like that... blah blah blah blah blah...

Blame the victim.

blah blah blah blah blah...

Stupid logic.

blah blah blah blah blah...

Jesus suffered for you.

blah blah blah blah blah...

Deny the truth.

blah blah blah blah blah...

Someone else did this, we blame Satan.

blah blah blah blah blah...

Church did not do this someone else did.

blah blah blah blah blah...

Muslims are bad people.

blah blah blah blah blah...

You need to move forward.

blah blah blah blah blah...

blah blah blah blah blah...

blah blah blah blah blah...

Scripture not related to this or anything else.

blah blah blah blah blah...

Noah lived to be 555 years.

blah blah blah blah blah...

If you had questions or some actual dialog you cared to make to understand the problem then please ask.

Otherwise. Most of this is self evident.

Your current solution is akin to that which you had all along... ignorance.

Looks like you still want to blame me which will not be possible.

Are you now claiming NONE of this is true?

You won't find many agreeing with you there.

Looks like you wanted and planned all along to let these people and your friends in the law get away with ALL of this. You sensed a problem with the knife though, right?

Explain the wounds, the lie about accident, loss of my car, surgery after that, and damage to the Church...

Or explain my teeth? Drilled into nothing by a dentist who bragged to me as a child he was doing it?

You stand for and against the law, break it and hide from it then use it to blame and smear your victims.

I predict Ronald will have nothing of substance to say further beyond just his offer of vague slurs proving me right again.

Bad faith is yours son.

And for you the hazard of what you did for 50+ years is allow these people to harm other children, they later are taking their own lives, look at First Niagara Bank and the suicides of these other people.... and so it goes.

Other people are involved, you owe them money, my wife does, employers do, there are medical problems, for me, for others, for you, etc. State has a taxation problem in that they deny service and hide behind you.... it can't work.

You have no solution other than to conspire Ronald.

I think you are OK with too much Ronald.

You stole money from me, compelled me there under duress and violence, etc....

That is wrong.

You even said as such.

Police have the same problem and you really only need say one violent or sexual felony certainly planned in advance to say that given your want to stand for doing it at the expense of the victim.

A backwards State plays victim model, Church does same thing.

As if you as Police who say why should State pay us to break the law this way?

I guess you are both not working.

Church is a criminal body and I can prove that.

This is over.

You can not defend breaking the law or defend atrocity that is not defensible.

State admits guilt, Police do, Church does, my father does, my wife does, my friends (Your shills) do, etc..... That took over 45 years.... Do you plan to have me live to be 500 years? You? 777?

So who are you now?

Like with the Police, why should the dead pay you, honor you, or follow you only to have you do more murder to the victim?

Who cares what you or they say?

You DO NOT argue or negotiate with the dead especially when YOU KILLED THEM !

You have no leverage and you have no witness.

Since you gave that all to the Devil.


You were warned.

The breach largely falls back on the State since they should have stopped and charged you long ago.

Your and their want to have it both ways, and it now looks like your murder in 1981 was built on a flawed Biblical model, and then you want to deny me service after it and barter on the blood.

You both want to make a man in the middle problem of it all and in the end Church should have solved this OF THEIR VOLITION and before the State was forced to act on it but here you are still 50 years out saying it is all OK and it is not.

You are not Godly people you are child raping felons with an anarchist set of frauds to support blaming victims or removing them in total.

That ends it.

Since you never stood against it, partook in doing it, and now just babble nonsense and no resolve about it all and play on the vanity all along that says you know too much.

I and others fail to see how your crimes and atrocities self support on your compelled offers of non solutions and the futility that you create in doing that.

You offer self support on the futility.

The ends do not justify the means.

Example? Getting a dead body on a murder does not support the murder.

How is your logic today? Ethic?

I don't mind discussions but this is late in the game, I seem to be doing all the talking, nobody seems to have any questions, etc....

Get the idea Ronald?

Again the problems are your lies and that of State.

You did something bad, then lied about it, then called it an accident, then called it Justice and God's hand, now offer it as punitive, change it later to claim it never went on, and so on....

And you expect others including the victims to pay for it.

You say a lot of things including it is free and none of that is true.

Much of what Church says is false.

Problem one.

Even now you'd offer I said something untrue here and that is not accurate or fair of you.

With the notion of IF in your overture to talk to me. IF assumes ALL is wrong. I only need ONE felony done to me say as an adult to make you look wrong.

Forgetting the child harms....

Finding fault with me that way is a waste of time for these reasons:

1) It was not up to me to fix, this is your job, I was a child to begin with.

2) None of this, being the witness, you could refute since it is my witness and you have none otherwise. You can't remove my witness.

3) You already lied about most all of it to turn it into anti-witness. Or something else that it is not.

4) You helped with media slurs, false flag events, and the acts to soil my character as was done.

5) You tried to remove my witness with murder and support of that, more than once.

6) I pay you and Police to keep me safe.

7) There are scars and other evidence persisting today that prove most of this.

8) State and the perpetrators admit guilt as does Church.

Your point was what?

In any event I don't see your position as being legal, ethical, moral, or having any support with merit.

Nor are your slurs of me accurate.

You and the people paid for this and supported it (For 50+ years) so for you like the Police you will be subjected to your own justice and payment.

NOT ONE person stood against this, spoke to me about it, is willing to ADMIT ONE thing was done wrong, etc TO THIS DAY other than some vague admissions that lack contrition from my father etc.... arrogant? WOW ! Proud? Yep..

You invoked nothing less than a witch hunt in an effort to vilify me and to blame me for this to support it. That admits guilt and offers motive.

Once you go down the wrong path and break the law you will need to move forward but now pass through the penalty door.

There are no U Turns in life this way.

Some or most of these events are atomic, take a life cripple and murder a child, you be done.

You will not go back. And that means for me and you as in you will move forward and pay and I will not be with those doing the harms...

But you did just that, attack the victim again and move vanity around to erase and make him an anti victim. Fools.... since you knew the vanity....

You seem to toss all that reason logic proportion common sense and the rest out the window and are able to get this 100% wrong 100% of the time for 100% of the thousands of events that took place in my life alone.

This has been fascinating but in reality this is some of the most horrid things you can do to a person and there are countless events here.

So with that.

The reality is I and you suffer the harms.

And it ends up less like a hobby and more like my own murder(s).

You like Ronald McDonald and Police State USA are just hoping to improve your image and reputation and market more of your Shine - Ola.

It is snake oil and gore.

ALL Hogwash.

So for you and the Police State you are not Jesuits making worship of God, you are playing God.

2 different things.

You literally made a SHRINE OF HATE to this !

You have children involved in this, etc...


Had to mention that.

Your non solution is same as Police State USA's, treat all victims as criminals and not pay them any heed.

Offer that might is right and that you are always right and own all the truth and compel more crimes unto victims and others.

Problems are that this does not support Police as being paid or you taking money since you only use that to break more laws.

AND I am NOT obligated to pay you or listen to you.

And blaming the victim then mostly offers motive, admits something was done, and then does not serve other victims or protect other innocents and citizens...


From me RE Jesus -- "You'd need to understand that his death has no meaning to you or anyone else."

One, it fails on the foundation of the event itself and two, by your acts later to repeat the mantra and creed you adopt via murder of an innocent as payment by proxy. Two problems.

It self supports as a fraud AND you act on it in the here and now to deny the real and living based on the notion of the past and long dead. You reject the living today for the past long gone and not in your life time.

And you prove that anew here since life and the living have no meaning to you nor does the harm you allow to be caused to them.

And you make overt and covert acts to do that. Also acts of omission and commission.

This is the point and all my other points of fraud and the rest are valid also.

Point is I have been fair to you, to the Church, and to all involved including arrogant, condescending, rude, disrespectful violent, pedophile, cowardly, larcenous Police and others and I understood your points of view.

I listened to your lies and threats, heard what you believe in etc and you are wrong.

You had 50 years to turn from this.

And refuse to do so.

Repent, know the word?

2 late.

You hide behind women and children as the Police do, use my pedophile and murdering parents to make dirty images of us as children and to harm me and my sister later with them.

Now you and the Police and State play the victim like the femme fatales you used...


Good luck.

You being the Church like the Police and State in the USA have made a long, and hard and firm and arrogant (being unrepentant or non-contrite) and ego maniacal stance on the wrong side of the law, so now you can remain there and suffer the consequences of doing what you do.

Simple really.

You are child raping felons.

Who made your bed with your Mafia.

And you prove anew that reasoning with unreasonable people is a waste of time.

Like my parents who you and the Police protect and support to this day.


Latin phrase quod erat demonstrandum, meaning "which is what had to be proven".

Unfortunately for you, sorry to say, you have been had.

Sorry for your loss(es).....

The answer for you is that this has been difficult and unreasonable and excessive given the following and the fact that ANY or ONE of these harms made to me is too much merely done since I am the victim otherwise of 1 crime. Why punish me?

I have spent most of my life alone or living with people who were only there to harm me including taking my life.

This includes parents who have made more than one successful effort at homicide in reality. These people succeeded in killing me more than once.

For most of the rest of the time and likely all of it in total I would have been better off alone and without these people.

I have had teachers and doctors and clergy harm me and even admit doing so to me as a child.

By the time I had learned the truth of much of this in 2003 I had many other acts of violence done to me including a hate crime in 1981 that Church is involved in and was now married to a wife who was placed there to harm me this way.

Since that time in 2003 when I began to work to understand this and to recall child harms and after my wife made another murder on me to suppress witness I have spent the last 13 years now to this date in late 2015:

-- Alone and in ill health suffering the effects of multiple lethal injuries, vivisection wounds and other efforts at murder.

-- Been denied medical care and legal actions to charge these felons.

-- Made efforts to work for US DOD and Raytheon in Germany and was attacked there in an effort to suppress witness.

-- Had constant actions by State and others to suppress witness and to harm me.

-- Been denied housing and banking and had monies stolen etc in support of this.

-- With that and other means been rendered homeless, starving and destitute more than once. Intentionally.

-- Had to witness and record and type and write this working over 14 hours per day or more and 7 days a week since 2003 to get to where I am now.

-- Again doing all of that with no food to eat for years, no place to live, no phone or mailing address etc.

-- For instance in 2003 and 2004 from the injuries and other harms I went for 14 months wihout a bowel movement and lost well over 130lbs. This went on well past 2006, 2007 and into 2008.

-- Point again is this is needless. My parents and others live in a $500,000 lakefront home in Wilson NY and despite their countless felonies have not missed one meal or paycheck from General Motors benefit programs or Social Security etc.

-- I have no sympathy for you and your "Money Problems".

-- Problem again is this is to look like bad luck or a cavalcade of idiots when in fact all you need to do is to arrest the parade. You offer when you are aware of a child being raped in your court of law or airport that the Judge or Police will just not bother.

You are akin to the Police you support in your want to play or be God. And you help each other do just that.

Since you are always on all sides of any issue and really feel this is all up to you but are never accountable you really have no spine at all.

I'd not even call you a feather in the wind since largely that is too deterministic since beyond that you largely are a collection of cat crap that just sits around and stinks all the time.

Once pressed on something you always seem to slither into some other corner to hide.

There is no reality for you.

Living with and among you is a waste of time since largely you are an abyss and it works like this, living with a femme fatale has an up side assuming you live:

Someone came over today and tampered with the pool filter. You might ask of me how do I feel about it all ( since I do not know about it yet ) or you could be a honest wife and just tell me about it.

Get the idea?

You are too careful never to make a statement, or do more than offer innuendo and vague slurs about lies you already told lest you take a side and be called on it all.

Your faith and religion is crime and removal of accountability and facades of perfection.

And I am tired of being Houdini and Hercules with duct tape over my mouth to make you look good on it all.


Again you and the Police here, rather than doing their jobs properly, just sit around in your sandbox squeezing your own turds and making complaints about the smell.

If you can't stand the heat and can't stand the smell of your own crap then get out of the kitchen....

There was never any reason for this and you being Church and Police State offer just that, a legacy of suicide and an inheritance of child rape and murder and announce you are above it all and immune to cancer, a knife, and death by lethal injection.


You disagree? How?

Superman meets Jesus Kid Raping Christ. You have it all !

Aren't you special?

Jesus is and was a con man and huckster, so are you.

Ronald Holz -- "the toxic faith isn't yours but the one who originally wounded you. the question for anyone having been wounded in that manner is how to rise above it. It isn't easy. the fault isn't in these cases isn't Jesus but in the one who claims Him in a way that I am calling toxic. I have had to deal with that in one case myself. but the only way we really win in that situation is to grow beyond it in a way that allows faith to be genuine in ourselves."

Fair enough I am here and since you felt a need to respond let me comment more on this please....

At the risk of using tactic on you let me be organized and take this apart... From your statement here and I appreciate that:

Ronald Holz "the toxic faith isn't yours but the one who originally wounded you. the question for anyone having been wounded in that manner is how to rise above it. "

No... agreed and I need not have any faith to be harmed in a crime by the Church. These are felonies.

Ronald Holz "It isn't easy. the fault isn't in these cases isn't Jesus but in the one who claims Him in a way that I am calling toxic. I have had to deal with that in one case myself. but the only way we really win in that situation is to grow beyond it in a way that allows faith to be genuine in ourselves."

So in this case the Church is doing this to me. So Lutherans harmed me, claimed accident, conspire in the murder, this was a murder done to me, and the child harms....

Moving forward is not possible and this involved the Police including in child harms, there is no repent on their part.

This went on for 50+ years, use of women, bogus marriages, etc....

So for you this is the real Jesus...

This goes beyond just some guy who shows up one Sunday.

You hope to remove them from Jesus and the body & that can't work.

And you have not spoken to the notion of being accountable and punished or their want to turn from the crimes.

This is above just people claiming to be Jesuits. Police and State act with the body of the Church and you have more than one event for many times etc over years and years.

These are atrocities sorry to say.

Points again are these are crimes done to me, Church is at fault and you can't hope to bless the Church anew with the want to wash these people out the front door since the Church owns this mess. They did this to me.

This ends at the Vatican. It goes to the top.

So. So in two parts criminal acts done to me and beyond that for all Jesus and the faith in him is misleading. A fraud. And you demonstrate how victims are turned away using it.

You keep diluting and bifurcating the problem and offer excuses for people who acted with the Church.

This is the Church.

Despite all that this discussion helps me but your argument is lost.

It fails on what was done to me and Jesus fails in general for all and you use the body of zombies to enact this moving forward....

And you dismiss that all on faith, meaning mine, yours, that of the Church, and that of the felons who did this.

Too subjective and ethereal...

Account for the crimes.

Instead of telling me what I know or what you should have told me long ago, being that this is a knife in my back, you now would better ask a question possibly?

What you are telling me now is wrong. Problems of old.

You said "... the question for anyone having been wounded in that manner is how to rise above it..."

This is murder and child rape.

You don't ignore it so they can repeat it right?

When you get a flat tire do you drive on it Ronald Holz ?

This is your approach...

Why not fix it?

I am not here to abuse you or anyone else but the point is you are wrong and this ends up being abusive of me. Certainly you'd have to admit some people need to go to jail....

This is WAY too hard to get you to see for some reason.

Most of this is self evident and I spoke to it again here.

Dead people do not grow.

Face the facts. Where are those who attacked me?

You tell them they can get away with it since they don't pay...

Where is my money?

Of the other's?

More than me are involved in this loss...


You have a State body here and I pay for it now you want me to pay taxes for support of contracts I can not sign since you won't allow them to be enforced....

It can not work.

All you offered so far is denial, excuses about what people believe, and then a suggestion that IF harm was caused to me....



Ronald Holz "the toxic faith isn't yours but the one who originally wounded you. "

The one? More like a lynch mob.... there are well over 100 violent and sexual felonies done to me alone. EXCLUDING financial, adding that gets you closer to 1,000.

Many before I was 18 years old.

For the toxic faith you are enabling and supporting it with this.

Ronald Holz "... the fault isn't in these cases isn't Jesus.."

Yes it is again since this is his body the Church. He offers he pays for these people he does not. etc.

He killed himself in order to offer payment it does not work. This is a fraud.

These people pay, church must pay, these crimes must be stopped. Stop blaming other people for the crimes of the Church and they have done this for ever. Inquisitions were what?

Again it matters not since Jesus is dead. These people do this IN HIS NAME...

Specious logic again.

Again problem for you, and I am being fair to you Ronald, keep in mind the crimes done to me is...

I need to have no faith at all and neither does ANYONE in the Church including the Vatican and Pope and you support me being right with your flawed approach and argument.... being these people are wrong.

Reasons matter less and would only offer support or other evidence of the crimes.

See that now?

They knew they broke the law and are wrong.

It was not Thor either who did this to me was it?

This ran same way as this person offered I think he was Muslim but professed faith in Jesus...

This is on my web site and I promise no dirty tricks, my witness is there and this is part of my making sense of this:

My Why Faith Wont Save You Note

It is about WHAT YOU and others BELIEVE and how that does NOT make wrongs people do right...

It matters not what people believe.

Beyond the fact you tell them to sin and cause harm and it is free....

You hope to invoke magic and deity to make your disease your cure....

In effect.

It is the foolish ideas Church places in the heads of people...

What then is your point to resolve this then Ronald Holz ?

So far none of that or what you said precludes me being the victim of a crime or these atrocities and none of that vindicates the Church and these felons including Police for their crimes.

When a child is raped in your Church in front of the congregation what is your offer?

Or a man killed in the parking lot?

Move forward? Pray for him later?

A lot of you are being tricked into supporting this fraud this way.

That ends it for me. I am NOT insensitive to the fact you are human beings with emotions and are being taken advantage of, you are....

Point is all this works and traps clever men. My case is iconic and excessive and if you get mine wrong you get all others wrong.

You got it wrong.

I think for many or most people without my history or having say this many or even one serious crime done to them with no resolve.... and I wanted to believe in the Church and attended for years later despite crimes they did to me, this will fool you.

Unless you challenge this and make an organized review of what you are being told you will get lost on it all.

Jesus defeats the faith in total from the start.

Christ ruins Christianity.

My views are this was done to make fools of you and make fun of you.

The cleverness and perverse nature of it.

Point is you are making excuses to protect the Church who is wrong and already used murder to get away with murder.

Problem is much harm is caused with words you speak since then this is witness suppression and collusion and support of the crimes done with your offer that someone else is to blame and you just need to move forward.

Keep in mind you already lied about them. To me and then about me to others.

Again since the State here is involved with you and you decide to be a child raping Mafia it seems either you run the State as a State with rule of law or you go home.

Same for Church.

You took the rest of your lives off and decided not to be cops.

Just the verbal abuse I had to tolerate from Church and family and friends etc is enough, blame, blame, blame, blame, blame, etc over and over.

A dirge.

Ronald Holz -- "the toxic faith isn't yours but the one who originally wounded you."

Of course that is false also since you and others lied to me and about me and beyond that you brainwashed me with this faith and the other abuse.

So wrong again.

It comes down to thought, word, deed. What I believe does matter since you used that to get away with it and what you tell others to believe matters also.

It is a matter what is said and done to break the law.

Ronald Holz -- "the toxic faith isn't yours but the one who originally wounded you."

Again that matters not since your solution is to allow them to get away with it and remove the blame of them and Church, problem is you are evangelizing on the crimes and support the criminality.

They could in fact be Muslims but you protect them. AND you did crimes to me and sued me in courts etc. As you speak for and represent the Church as you do.

So you break the law, Police break the law, parents break the law and you offer all is free and you don't suffer from the law but for some reason you stand against the law but then use it to harm me. You can't work for the law and be against it nor can you work for Jesus and stand against Church eh?

Why do I pay?


Your argument supports what I say. Who says they are Jesuits? Who cares since Church used them and their toxic faith to get away with it all.

Jesus is poison.

Your rut is complete.


Jesus is Charles Manson and Charles Manson is Jesus.

You know those folks?

Jesus decided he had to be killed in order to pay for you, which is not possible.

This really makes it suicide and you can't make yourself a martyr. In his mind and that of Jesuits his death was needed to offer payment by proxy. A fraud.

You accept murder of an innocent to pay for you, you conspire in the homicide by that.

Jesus was offered a chance to flee and Pilate made that clear to him and the people meaning he left it up to them.

This ends up being a way to have it both ways, you are guilty of accepting the death and murder as payment and then left with the shuystering that says this is really suicide and still a needless death.

Jesus in effect took his own life and could not prove he was a deity or pure at all.

Jesus in effect would be guilty of crimes as Charles Manson was, it is called vicarious culpability. So would be people who'd preach it to others and compel them to do same.


"He was convicted under California statutes that allowed murder conspirators to be culpable via vicarious liability, which did not demand their presence at a murder to convict."

Jesus is a confidence man.

Notes about Jesuit frauds:

My Jesuit Notes

Nothing you can really say to defend your Church since they are wrong and these atrocities have no defense.

Ronald Holz -- "then I would ask your interest in this group?"

That is your only concern at this point?

Find fault with me for that?

Why ask?

Is there a problem for you?

Is that not obvious Ronald Holz ?

Your question is dishonest.

Are YOU here to suppress discussions? Ronald Holz ?

I was waiting for you to "Show me the light"?


You tell me?

Ronald Holz -- "then I would ask your interest in this group?"

You mean what is my interest in this group? That is my business. What is yours? Maybe respond to one of my questions....

Ronald Holz "terry, I am not constantly at the computer. we are having a birthday party for my step daughter here.. I am willing to listen to your story and to share from mine. but that should be done in a manner respecting each other with simple civility in our manner to each other. I have experienced wounds from what I call toxic faith. My walk with Him is closer because of it. He is real to me in my daily existence. That differs from you and I have no issue with your position on the matter. the question remains how to find healing. the rest of this night belongs to my family."

No point provoking a conversation and walking away from it.

Since you seem to interject nothing other than offering you can not read, maybe none of this is true, etc.

Now you play the victim and you are not.

I don't sit around here to wait for you to not ask or respond to my questions right?

None of that matters since you said nothing to stand against the problems, to resolve them, to account for them, or to learn more about them and then you said a number of things that are not true Ronald Holz.

In other words you lied.

Jesus is the problem and so are you.

This IS the point.

Now you ask why I am here, did you think I don't belong?


Now you will run away and play more with your children and then use that to market you are pure and holy again...



Again you sense the trap Church is to blame for what these felons believed in doing what they did to me or others.

What they believe matters since it caused them to act but what they or you or I believe does not defend their crimes as being just or not crimes.

And your non solution ends up with this problem, when you have a slew of Pastors who like to burn down your Churches on Tuesday do you say we need to get past this and not bother with finding who is to blame as long as you can stay warm and toss on more Bibles to assist the homeless folks you missed on the murder over who came over to roast your weiner on it all?

Probably not.

Ronald Holz "... the fault isn't in these cases isn't Jesus.."

And then you deny your faith with the claim this is not what Jesus is about and this is not his doing.

Looks like you are done Ronald Holz.

You offer he pays. So...

You offered again about faith and the rest and just the lies you told TO me are enough and outside the notion of faith in total. Being right and correct is FAR harder than being wrong. And forget the notion of faith, just the lies you preached about the harms to me and lies my parents told are enough. Wrong again.

Since children are being harmed and you can't bother seeing that then just go molest yours and leave me alone, is that your point?

Be a man.

You lose then.


Then you live in a delusion and fantasy Ronald and hide behind more women and children to do so.

Best of luck.

It is always the same for you Ronny. And I already said all that, either do or do not.

If you can't defend your Church then don't do it.

Not doing it is not doing it.

Don't arrive just to leave.

And you disrespected me more than once, I owe you none there either Ronny.

Point again is I don't sit around waiting to have a conversation with liars and fools who just decide to start a conversation only to walk away from it all....